How We Participate In Letting Work Turn Us Into Machines - with Dr. Carol Xu
In this episode of the Sidewalk Talk podcast, host and founder Traci Ruble speaks with Dr. Carol Xu, who holds a PhD in management science and engineering from Stanford University, about the intricacies of human connection. They explore Carol’s expertise in cross-cultural communication and management, her personal journey through burnout and depression, and the innovative practices she employs to foster creativity and resilience in organizations.
Their conversation covers a range of topics, from the impact of T-groups on interpersonal communication to the challenges of maintaining humanizing practices within organizational structures. Carol highlights the importance of grounding, intentional listening, and striking a balance between emergent strategies and structured plans to sustain meaningful connections—both personally and professionally.
Episode Timeline
00:00 Introduction to Sidewalk Talk
01:04 Revisiting Conversations: Tracy's Experience
01:28 Meet Carol Hsu: Cross-Cultural Communication Expert
05:52 Carol's Journey: From Academia to Burnout
09:24 The Importance of Human Connection in Organizations
14:08 Balancing Growth and Humanization in Organizations
20:31 Emergent Strategies and Human Awareness
26:32 Humanizing the Workplace
28:36 The Role of Power in Hierarchies
32:04 Understanding Liminal Space
35:22 Communication Dojo and T Groups
38:39 The Importance of Foundational Layer
45:46 Final Thoughts and Gratitude
Resources Mentioned
https://www.presentofwork.com/
https://www.presentofwork.com/relational-agility
Standout Quotes
“ That humility is really important. Like sometimes just admit that. Hey, we don't know what we're doing.” (Carol)
“ Once an organization is big enough, and then once it wants to control some things, and thenit starts a metric system and then it starts measuring people. Once you do that, people will tend to switch off their internal kind of sensibility and awareness, and then they try to fit that mode.” (Carol)
“ Oftentimes what's easily measured is actually not the underlying thing you want. ” (Carol)
“ The symbolism of that story is so fascinating. You're saying if we mechanize ourselves, we die.”(Traci)
“Empower people to tap into, to really tap into the overlap between the personal and organizational. ” (Carol)
“ In some ways, we have a tendency as humans to turn ourselves into a machine. We have a tendency to take things for granted. It doesn't matter if it's at the workplace or at the house, at the home front.” (Carol)
“ Efficiency, has a place. However, it also can easily get abused. And I think in today's societies, a lot of places that doesn't really need a hierarchy, has hierarchy just because people don't really have any other alternative models.” (Carol)
“If you're using oppression to fight oppression, you're on the wrong track.” (Traci)
Connect
Find | Dr. Carol Xu
At www.presentofwork.com/
On LinkedIn: @jiacarolxu
Find | Sidewalk Talk
At sidewalk-talk.org
On Instagram: @sidewalktalkorg
On Twitter: @sidewalktalkorg
On Facebook: @Sidewalktalksf
On LinkedIn: @SidewalkTalkOrg
Find | Traci Ruble
At Traciruble.com
On Instagram: @TraciRubleMFT
On LinkedIn: @traciruble
On Facebook: @TraciRubleMFT
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